Comments on: Classic F1 car runs "even more fun" using sustainable fuels - Vettel | RaceFans Round-up https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/ Formula 1, IndyCar, WEC, Formula E and more independent motorsport coverage Tue, 12 Sep 2023 11:40:41 +0000 hourly 1 By: MichaelV12 https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938462 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 11:40:41 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938462 In reply to Jay.

It kind of does rub the wrong way a bit.
Seb is a likeable guy and I get that he's kind of signed up to the environmental movement now so he has to say these things. I don't have a problem with Seb per se, he's not a bad guy. I rooted for him, especially at Ferrari. :)

But I had to dump my car in 2020 when covid hit. Three years later and prices of decent second hand cars are now inflated beyond my reach. I don't even want one anymore. So… as for cars… well, I would say my environmental footprint is very close to zero.

Silver lining: no more road tax to pay. I'll keep that money myself.

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By: Facts&Stats https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938455 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:35:34 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938455 In reply to CarWars.

When the synthetic fuels are based on carbon capture, and its production 'fuelled' by wind or solar, then it is just as clean as Solar/Wind electricity.
Actually, it is even cleaner* as the carbon is temporarily 'withdrawn' from the atmosphere.

* for simplicity sake I leave out the impact of producing the Combustion vs Electric powertrain, and the transportation of the fuel/ions.

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By: Facts&Stats https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938453 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 10:26:51 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938453 In reply to MacLeod.

The status of some of those trees weren’t good (the non palm ones)

Fun fact: 'Palm trees' aren't trees.
Probably family of the Killer Whales and F1 Racing ;)

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By: Jay https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938451 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 09:03:24 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938451 In reply to oweng.

Actions speak louder than words. I suspect his carbon footprint is bigger in 1 year than in my entire life. I've never been on an airplane and I also use public transport. People like me see hypocrites who aren't doing what they say.

Less pollution the better but to champion zero emissions on a racing vehicle while flying around the world.. It rubs me the wrong way.

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By: Jay https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938449 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:56:29 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938449 In reply to moctecus.

I don't necessarily doubt you but after reading most of their white paper, I have questions about the figures. And in that same whitepaper, it says that F1 will be using the P1fuels in 2026.

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By: MichaelV12 https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938447 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:46:54 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938447 "Race without Trace", well I can't argue with him on that (*cough*).

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By: oweng https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938446 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:46:31 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938446 It always strikes me as a weird argument to make - that unless something or someone has a 0% environmental impact on the planet, then you're not allowed to suggest any sort of reduction in environmental impact on the planet.

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By: MichaelN https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938445 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:43:16 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938445

Alessandro Alunni Bravi: "In Formula 1, we are at the pinnacle not only of motorsport, but also of technology, especially for the future of mobility. Since 2014, we've used the most efficient hybrid fuels in the world. Now we are using 10% bio fuel and soon our cars will run on 100% sustainable fuels."

Hybrid fuels?

Anyway, there is only one area where F1 is at the pinnacle of technology; the MGU-H. And that is relatively useless outside of high performance competitive environments because the gains, while meaningful, are marginal in normal road use while requiring a very complex and expensive system to achieve. Even F1's aerodynamics, while certainly clever, are very inefficient because the series thinks open wheels is the only way to have a proper F1 car.

It's no surprise to see F1 double down on fuel as a big selling point for the 2026 rules because there's very little else that makes it interesting. And that's fine - to a degree - because fuels obviously extremely important. What it's not, however, is a particularly interesting topic for manufacturers to market their products on. It'll be interesting to see how many of them stick around long term.

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By: CarWars https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938442 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:25:38 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938442 In reply to moctecus.

Yet these fuels have similar emissions in the end. Apart from the circus to get an F1 car at a track and serviced (that's all done by fairies and dwarfs that are carbon neutral in their travel of course). Vettel is stuck in a weird green washing loop.

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By: Tifoso1989 https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938441 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 08:21:15 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938441 In reply to Alan Dove.

Alan Dove,
Thanks for the insights you bring with regard to everything surrounding Karting !

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By: moctecus https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938433 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 07:11:00 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938433 In reply to SadF1fan.

The fuel Vettel used was produced by German company P1 Racing Fuels in Belgium, just a few hundred kilometres from the Nordschleife. Their 100% fossil-free fuel reduces Well-to-Wheel (WtW) emissions by 71% compared to 100% fossil fuel (up to 92% are possible when using 100% renewable power). WtW emissions include everything that happens from gathering the raw materials to the burnt fuel exiting the tailpipe.

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By: MacLeod https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938427 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:57:04 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938427 In reply to Rhys Lloyd.

The status of some of those trees weren't good (the non palm ones) if they remove those i have no problem with that BUT healthy palm trees is a other case.

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By: SadF1fan https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938425 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:37:16 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938425 Sigh, Vettels argumentation is another false one and it's sad and pathetic that this is the level of rhetoric they drop down to.
There is literally no difference between the "fun" experienced of driving on sustainable or unsustainable fuel.
And if you consider that the containerships and tankers that transport the sustainable fuel are significantly more polluting than the few toycars that drive on sustainable fuel. It would have been far less harmful to drive those F1 cars on the Nordschleife on fuel from guaranteed North Sea oil, than on sustainable fuel produced in South America.

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By: Alan Dove https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938423 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 06:28:04 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938423 Mercedes are incorrect. The World Championship nomenclature is reserved for the KZ and Junior & Senior OK classes only. Technically Alex is Vice-World Cup Winner. Minor detail, but I guess Mercedes don't care about wikipedia type stuff. They previously tweeted De Vries was the first Dutch World FIA Champion, and that was categorically wrong too.

It is odd that Toto Wolff makes comments about karting being too expensive while Mercedes are putting F1 money into the gearbox categories. These categories have traditionally been sanctuary for those trying to avoid F1 money in the direct drive classes. It's worth noting that Paulo Ippolito who won in KZ is older than Max Verstappen. Max kicked the trend off, but it was him, his dad and CRG. He wasn't an 'F1 Junior'. Despite what some may think F1's presence within karting isn't particularly welcome unless you're a team owner who wants to make a quick fortune. I think going forward the FIA needs to make some decisions.

Nothing against Alex's success, but the FIA and F1 have make the direct drive classes horrifically unattractive and have really destroyed them. Partly bad technically decisions and partly F1 money making it exclusive. Karting isn't F3 or F4, it isn't a 'ladder' class, especially not the shifter categories. But now some fear the F1inificaiton of karting will infect those classes too.

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By: Armchair Expert https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938422 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 05:52:38 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938422 Ah yes, fighting with climate change by promoting a brand that encourages you to travel all around the world and pollute it. Sir Lewis Hamilton, everyone. Eat the rich.

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By: Rhys Lloyd https://www.racefans.net/2023/09/12/racefans-round-up-12-09-6/#comment-4938417 Tue, 12 Sep 2023 05:08:26 +0000 https://www.racefans.net/?p=516711#comment-4938417 Not a good look for F1 sustainability having all those trees cut down. Granted, it realistically and statistically likely makes very little difference in Las Vegas, but “perception is reality” and it’s going to warrant some answers.

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